BOMBLOG访谈ALEXROSSPERRY

http://bombsite.com/issues/1000/articles/6712只翻访谈的部分，慢慢翻。。。====================================他人挺好的RyanSheldon：我先想问的是从Impolex到TheColorWheel你有没有觉得自己拍电影的方式有变化。Impolex只用了六天就拍完了是吧？AlexRossPerry：其实是七天。TheColorWheel是十七天。我没觉得之间有多大的变化。环境都差不多，也基本是一样的团队。演员是变了，但摄影指导，声音指导，设备都还一样。我们还两次都呆在了Vermont的同一处房子。所以这样说来其实没什么差别，这也是为什么在我看来这两部电影没多大差别。拍这两部片子的动机完完全全就一样：和你的朋友在夏天聚聚，开开心。所以对我来说他们挺相似的。当我们在Vermont拍TheColorWheel的时候，我们住的一样的地方，去的一样的饭馆，感觉有点像“TheBigChill”，物是人非。有点奇怪，但的确两部片子都是这么拍出来的。只不过一个用了两倍的时间RS：有没有感觉和Sean(摄影师)之前有种自然而然的互通？ARP：是挺玄的。拍Impolex之前我们从来没合作过，除了在Kim(一家现在关了门的纽约租片的地方，为有很多难找的片子而出名)一起打工的时候，但拍片时的互通确是自然而且不需要语言交流的。而在拍TheColorWheel——当我们都没有监视器，当我自己都在镜头里面——的时候我完全信任他也正是因为这种超越言语的互通，而我们这样思想上的相连——对同样事情一致的好坏判断——也让这样的合作方式成为可能。这让我们的合作更自然，也让一周或三周拍一次片变得可行。因为他拍的特别快，他是那种会说“我们可以反反复复拍上个十五遍，但也不会变的更好”的摄影指导。我们这样一个只有这么有限时间和资源的团队要的就是这样的摄影指导。他是会直接说“其实第一次的尝试就是最好的，我们不该再浪费时间”的。而他也的确在两部片子都说了这样的话，团队上能有这样的人帮了很多的忙。RS而Kim’s就是锻炼到你的的那个租片的店吧ARP是的，我在那工作了好几年——大学最后一年半的时间和第三年和第四年间的暑假。Sean和其他一堆我合作过的人也在那工作过。像两部电影里都出现的KateSheil，我在NYU的时候就认识她。但我们是在店里才变熟。所以Kims是个挺重要的地方，而因为在那工作过的人都爱聊它，它也就好像有了另一个版本的历史。我知道Kate在访谈里就常聊它。它也的确还在那，在第五大道上，但不是我们在的那个地点了。所以我们工作过的那个是没了，也让它变得像一个完结。RS你是在那认识Sean的？ARP是的我在还是顾客的时候认识他的RS哦ARP他从2000，也可能是2001，开始在那工作。我认识他的时候还是顾客，还在念NYU，几乎每天都会去那里租片。我给了他们我的简历，我每次去的时候都会问“有缺人么？”然后一天我接到了通电话——后来我明白了那是他们想让我别再问了。他们的感觉是，如果我们不给他个一周上两天班的那种活儿，他只会没完没了的问下去。但是的，我在那里认识了Sean，我们一起工作也开始一起看电影。然后Sean就没再那工作了，但我们还是有一起看电影，那个时候我们的关系已经在那了，但直到我看了他摄影的Frownland我才意识到我们的关系是可以进步到工作上的。我觉得Frownland很棒，我太喜欢整个电影，尤其是Sean的摄影，的审美。所以我就开始想了，这样一部我认识的人导的，我认识的人摄影的电影得到了这样好的评价，没理由别人就走不通这条路。我认识一样的摄影师，我也有一样的能力，我也想拍一部这么成功的片子。所以大致就这么开始了。RS所以Impolex是从那段关系衍生出来的？ARP是的，在我还能离开Kims，在Kims还没有定义我之前离开那儿，去做我一直想做的东西——拍一部16mm胶卷的独立电影——让我很兴奋。我也终于没了束缚去做我想做的事。我很开心。RS对于那部电影，最常问的问题是小说Gravity’sRainbow对电影有什么样的影响。电影并没有一板一眼的诠释小说。但当时你有打算去按着小说拍电影么？ARP并没有，我一直都有说“如果你读了这本书，写了篇读书笔记，我改编成电影的就是你的读书笔记”,我的意图也就是：对小说致敬，用我自己的方式去玩味它。因为小说本身很深，也能给予读者很多东西。它给了我很多的想法和画面，我不想让他们浪费掉。我就想了，我要么可以把这本书放回书架，什么收获也没有，要么可以花两年的时间把它拍城部电影——只有这样我才能够反思，弄清我对它的想法。SoitwasjustkindofmyownwayofcomingtotermswithsomethingthatopeneditselfuptomemorethananyotherpieceoffictionI’deverread.Iwantednottoadaptitormakeitmyownbutkindofdosomethingwithwhatitplanted—youknow,itgavemealltheseseedswhenIwasreadingit,andIhadtodosomethingwiththemorelsethey’djustdie,andIwantedtoseewhatthey’dgrowinto.Andthen,ofcourse,thefilmbecameverydistinct,andhadlotsofelementsthatwerenotfromanything—theywerejustfromme,orfromtheactors,andinthatsenseitbecameitsownthing,butitstillallowedmetointellectuallyandartisticallyengagewiththenovelinawaythatwassatisfyingandultimatelybroughteverythingfullcirclewhenIfinishedthefilmandputthatontheshelfandsaid,“Alright,I’mdonewiththebooknow.”RSSimilarly,peoplehavediscussedtheinfluenceofPhilipRothonTheColorWheel.Wouldyoulikentheprocessesofmakingthefilms—whereyou’retryingtoworkthroughthat?ARPYeah,[it’s]basicallythesamething.Yeah,thesearenotnovelistswhoevermadeworkoutsideoffiction.Theygaveusthat,butIliketothinkthatiftheymadefilms,they’dbelikethesefilms.Becausetheirbooksarenotthingsthatlendthemselvestoactuallybeingfilms,butiftheseauthorsweretohavewrittentheirownscreenplays,theymightincludeelementsoftheirownwork—orthemesoftheirwork—butwouldalsogoinotherdirections.AndthatwaswhatI’vesetoutdo,severaltimesnow.RSOK,wellwhatarethechallengestomakingstraightfilmsoutofthosebooks?Whenyousaytheydon’tlendthemselvestobeingfilms—ARPOh,thechallengesareinfinite.They’renotstraightforwardnarratives,theydon’thavebeginnings,middles,orends.InPhilipRoth’sbooks,there’ssometimesafifty-pagedialoguesceneandthenafifty-pageinternalmonologue.It’sjustnotnarrativelyforwardenough.Imeannoteverybook,butgenerally.Andthetoneandcontentofthebooksisonethat’smorelinguisticthannarrativedriven.They’renotMichaelCrichtonbooks,whereallyouneedforagoodmovieistheplot.WhatyouneedfortheRothorthePynchonbooksisasenseofstyleandsyntaxthatissospecifictofictionandliteraturethatitdoesn’ttranslateintoavisualmedium.That’snottosaythatthebooksdon’thavevividimages,becausetheydo—Gravity’sRainbowisfullofthem,andIwasinspiredbythem—butasastraightforwardplot,it’snotwhatyoulookfortoadaptabook.Butthere’ssomuchinitthat’ssovisualandsocinematic—inbothbodiesofwork.Andthat’sexcitingtome,togettoplayinthesamerealmthatsomeofthesewonderfulauthorsopenupiskindoffunformetodo,anditgivesmeagreaterunderstandingoftheirwork,andoffictioningeneral.Postwarliteratureissomethingthat’svery,veryfunandveryinteresting.SomethingIhighlyrecommendforfilmmakersistolooklessatfilmsthatareinspiringthemandmoreatstoriesthatareinspiringthem.BrunoMeyrickJonesasAdrianthePirateandRileyO’BryanasTyroneS.inImpolex(2009).RSAnotherthingIwaswonderingabout—wetalkedabouthowyoumetSean,butwhataboutCarlen[Altman]?Howdidthatcollaborationbegin?Orwheredidyoumeet?ARPImean,wemetatacomedyshow,calledGiggles,thatmyfriendhosts.And[Carlen]wasinafilmcalledYouWon’tMissMe,whichwasdirectedbytheactress—well,notanactress—directedbythefilmmakerwhoplaysmygirlfriendin[TheColorWheel].It’sanexcellentmovie,andIreallylikedCarleninit.Ienjoyedtalkingtoheratthiscomedyshow,andsomeonesaid,“youlooklikesiblings,”andIthought,Weshouldmakeamovietogether.Andthenwedid.RSAndshedoescomedy—sheperformsstand-up.RSYeah.Isthatsomethingyou’veeverdabbledin?ARPImean,Iwasdoingitatthisshow,wherewemet,becauseitwasthefirstoneofmyfriend’sshows.Itwasthefirstshowofhis,andhedidn’thaveanetworkofcomicsorcontactsandhejustaskedhisfriendstocomeinanddothingstogettheshowstarted.Sheshowedavideoanddidafewminutes,andIcameinandtoldsomejokes.Thatwaswherewemet.It’snotsomethingIdo.Imean,everyQAisbasicallystand-up.You’reliterallystandinginfrontofpeoplewhoareseatedandwaitingtobeentertained.Ifyouaregood,theywillgiveyoupositivefeedbackandthere’llbeagoodvibe,andifyou’rebombing,everyonewilljustwantittobeover.Sothey’reverysimilar—perhapsonewithlotsofgoodstand-upexperiencewoulddogoodQA’s,orviceversa.RSAreyouwillingtosayhowmuchtimewentintowritingTheColorWheel—ARPYeah.WestartedwritinginJune2009—justkindofoutliningandcomingupwithcharacters—andourfirstdraftofthescriptwasdoneonNovember1st,2009,andwestartedshootingJune1st,2010.So,giveortake,elevenmonthsofwriting,rehearsing,andrewriting.But,youknow,wewouldjustsitat[Carlen’s]houseseveraltimesaweekandjustgothroughthemotionsofsaying,Whatwouldthissceneplayoutlike?Whatscenedoweneedhere?ThenIcamehomeandactuallybuiltthescript,andwesattherewithitand,youknow,personalizeditanddevelopeditandwouldjustreadthroughitfromstarttofinish.Onedaywe’ddofortypages,andthenextdaywe’ddothenextforty—justrewritingnotesinthemargins.AndthenthenextweekI’dhaveournewestdraftofitandwewouldjustkeeprereadingituntilitflowedfromstarttofinish—everysceneweliked,everylineofdialogueweliked.RSManypeoplehavecalledJ.R.andColin“unlikable.”Thatseemstomereductiveandsimplistic—ARPWell,peopleare—reductiveandsimplisticbynature.Can’tfightthat.Peoplearesoeagertohavesomeeasylabelforsomethingthatmakesthemfeeluncomfortable.Soifyouwanttowatchamovieandsayyoudon’tlikeit,andsomeoneaskswhy,allyouhavetodoissaythecharacterswereunlikableandlazypeoplewillsay,“Oh,that’sperfectlyreasonable.”Butthatdeniespeopleanysortofexperienceofstrugglingtoconnectwithsomething.Certainlypeopledon’twatchMadMenandseecharacterswhoarecheatingontheirwives,andlying,andbelike,Wow,Ireallylikethesecharacters.Ireallythinkthesearegreatpeople.Certainlynobodysaysthat.Butifpeoplearewillingtopulltheirheadsoutoftheirassesandconnectwithacharacterwho’sclearlyfullofunlikablecharacteristics,thedramaticvalueofyourwatchingthatisn’t,Wow,thatwouldbeareallygoodfriendtohave,orareallygoodwifeorareallygoodboyfriendorhusband.Forsomereason,that’sthewaymostpeoplewanttoengagewithfilmedorwrittennarratives.Andifanyonecangetawayfromthat,they’regoingtoallowthemselvestoconnectwithworksthathavemuchmoredifficultprotagonists.RSIthinkwhat’sdifficultaboutthecharactersinTheColorWheelistheaccessibilityofbothofthem—you’reshowinguglydimensionsofcharacters,andIdon’tthinkthat’sthesamethingasmakingthemunlikable.There’svulnerabilitythere;youcanseetheirflaws—ARPWelltheimplicationwhenpeoplesaythatisthatthey’reincapableoflikingsomeoneinwhomthoseflawsare...youknow,visible.Ifyouseetheworstofsomebody,thenyou’renotgoingtolikethem.Andalotofpeoplewhohavethatresponsetothefilmprobablyfeelthatwayaboutpeople.Theyseesomeonewhoseemsvulnerableorannoying,orisovercompensating,thenthispersonmightnotlikethatperson.Andthey’rehavingthesameproblemthattheyhavewiththefilm—unfortunately,they’renevergoingtoconnectwithsomeonewhoactuallymightexpandtheirhorizonsaboutwhatitistoliveandinteractinthisworld.RSThefilmdefinitelyrequiresadeeperlevelofengagement,andIreallylikethat.There’s—Ithink,anyway—afantasticintimacyindepictingpeoplethatway.Whatwentintocraftingthosecharacters?Didyoufindthatitsortofcamenaturallyoutofthepremiseofthefilm,ordidyouhavetogobackandmakesuretheywereexposingmoreofthemselves,andofthesedarkersides?ARPIneverreallythoughtofthemashavingtheseissuesandbeingallexposeduntilpeoplestartedwatchingthefilmandrespondingtothemthatway.Tome,theywerejusthonestrepresentationsofwhatIconsidertobethetypeofpersonIseeeveryday.Youknow,thepeoplewhoyoumeet,thebestthinganyonecansayaboutthemis,“Oh,they’rereallynice.”Inevermeetthatperson,orIdoandIneverwanttoseethemagain—RSBecausethere’snodepth.ARPYeah,youmeetpeopleataparty,andit’slike,Everyonereallylikesthatguy.Andhowcome?Oh,he’sreallynice.Tome,it’slike,Fine,Ineverwanttoseehimorspeaktohimagain.So,havingsaidthat,myideaofcreatingacharacterishavingsomeonewhogoesbeyondthat.AgainImetthem,andIgotthisreallyweirdvibe,andtheyweremakingjokesthatwerefunnybutwereactuallykindofinappropriate,consideringwheretheyweretellingthesejokesandIdidn’tknowwhattothink.ThenIsawthemagainlateratadifferentpartyandtheywerealone—theylookedreallysadandIfeltreallybadforthembecauseIhadalltheseotherthoughtsandalltheseotherexperiences.Soputtingallthatstuffintoacharacter—whichareallthingsIfeelmyselforI’veexperiencedandbeenpartofmyownrelationshipswithpeople—youputallthatstuffinthereandthenpeople’sresponseis,Boy,whatasad,angryperson.Well,thatjustmeansyoudon’tgettoknowpeople,becauseifyougottoknowpeople,you’dlearnthatmostpeople—peoplewhoyoulookatandthinkarehappy-go-lucky,[aboutwhom]youwouldneversay,There’sanangrymiserableperson—they’renotshowinganythinginthemselvestoyou.Orthey’rejustcompletelydelusional,orthey’reonsomanyprescriptionmedicinesandantidepressantsthatthey’reincapableofhavingonejaggedorirrationalthought,andthat’swhattheirlifeislike.Andyoumeetthemandyouthink,Wellhere’sanice,well-balancedperson,andyouwanttobefriendswiththem.Andyoumeetsomeonewho’sconfrontationalanddifficultandoutspokenandalittlebitangryandalittlebitdirectandyouthink,Boy,Idon’twanttobeanywherenearthisperson.So,Idon’tseeanythingwrongwithamoviepopulatedbycharacterswhoactinthatmanner.RSWouldyousay,then,thatacentralpriorityofthisprojectwastomakeanhonestfilm,moreorless?ARPIdon’tthinkthere’sanythinghonestordishonestaboutit.Peoplesay,“Idon’tlikethesecharacters,”andIsay,“Idon’tlikepeople.”Whatdoesthatmean?ThatI’mnotgoingtoleavemyhouse.Ihavetogoparties,orIgotofestivals,orwherever,andImeetplentyofpeoplethatarenotinterestingorworthwhile.Thatdoesn’tmeanI’mgoingtoshutmyselfofffromthem,itjustmeansthat’swhatsocietyislike,andthisisthefabricoftheworldthatwelivein,andpeopleintheirtwentiestoday—likethecharactersinthefilm—actandconductthemselvesinawaythatIconsidertobeslightlyobnoxious,andIthinkthatbothofthecharactersinthefilmspeaktoequallyrevoltingtendencies,inmyopinion,ofmygenerationandIjustkindofwantedtoexaminethat.IwantedtospendtwoyearswiththesetypesofpeopleasawaytocometotermswithhowIfeltaboutthem.RileyO’BryanasTyroneS.inImpolex(2009).TheJ.R.characteristhetypicaldirectionlesshipsterwhohasnospecificinterests,wantsnothingmorethantobesuccessful,doesn’tevencareinwhatway—shejustwantspeopletoknowhername—andsheprobablythinksagreatuseoftimeissittingaroundafriend’sapartment,youknow,drinkingwarmbeerandtalkingaboutallthisgreatstuffthey’regoingtodo.Andmaybethentheyleavetheapartmenttogoseetheirfriend’sconcertthatoneoftheirfriendsisplayingortheygoseeanartexhibitthatoneoftheirfriendsisinandtheythink,Thisisagreattime.Theythinkthey’rereallycapitalizingontheirtwenties.Andthat’sthesortofpersonthat’sveryspecificallyrevoltingtome—thethesepeoplewhositaroundsaying“Iwanttodothis,orIwanttodothat,”likeshealwayssaysinthemovie,Iwanttobeanewsanchor—theydon’tactuallydoanythingtowardsthatend.Theyjustkindofassumethatwillcometothem.TheColincharacterisonthecompleteoppositeofthespectrum,whichissomeonewho’sjustdoingsomething—[people]whoaremakingsomethingofthemselves.Butwhatthey’remakingofthemselvesisthisambiguous,in-betweenofsomething,andnooneunderstandswhythey’redoingit.Yourunintothem—youhaven’tseentheminafewyears—andtheysaywhatthey’redoing,andtheonlyresponseyouhaveis,Wheredidthatcomefrom?EverythingIknewaboutyou—Ineverwouldhavethought.Whatbringsyoutothis?Whatinterestsyouaboutthis?You’renotinterestedinthis.ThosearethetwocartoonishextremesofwhatIthinkpeopleintheirlatetwentiesarelike,andbothdisgustmeequally,andIjustwantedtoblendthemtogetherandmakeonetheIdandonetheEgoandthenseewhatthemiddlegroundwasbetweenthesetwowildlydivergentpersonalities,andhowthesetwotypesofpeoplecouldgrowoutofthesamehome.RSYeah,thatcontemptforaimlessnessnotwithstanding,youextendsomesympathytothesecharactersaswell—ARPWell,that’spartofit.Imean,noonewouldwatchamovieiftheimpetusbehindeveryscenewasforthecreatortomakefunofthecharacters.There’snothinghonestorheartfeltinthat.SotheideawasforCarlenandItocreatethesecharactersthatwefeltveryparticulartowardsinonedirectionoranother,andthenasktheaudience—byaskingourselves—whatmakesthemthisway.Whyarewesoquicktojudge?Youseesomeoneactinglikethis,andyoumighthatethemonthesurface—oryoumightmeetthemandbelike,Whataniceguy—andunderneaththatthere’smoregoingon.Andifwemakeafilmthatshowsyouwhat’sunderneaththatpersonthatyoumadeasnapjudgmentabout,thenyou’regoingtofeelverysadandsympatheticaboutthem.IfI’moutonthestreet—ifI’minsomeneighborhoodlikeWilliamsburgorGreenpoint—andIseesomeonethatIimmediatelyidentifyasbeinglikeJ.R.,myinstinctistohatethem—andIdo—andmysecondinstinctistobelike,Well,Ibetthey’rereallysad.Ibetthey’reasad,miserableperson,justlikeher.Ibetthey’retotallyunawareofhowtomaketheirgoalscometrue,andthey’rejustthrowingdartsatthewallandhopingoneofthemhitsthebullseye.Andtheyhavenoideawhatthey’redoing—they’regoingtowakeuponeday,andthey’llbethirty-five,andthey’regoingtohavenoideaofwhytheyhaven’taccomplishedanything.AndthenI’mlike,Youknow,thesearesadpeople.Theylookhappyandthey’rewell-dressedandtheygoingtohangoutwithalltheirfriends,whichIdon’thave,butI’msureultimatelythey’reverysad.AndIseeguyslikeColincominghomeonthetrain—badclothes,ugly,uglypants,horribleshoes,greatjob,goodmoney.They’vegotbeautifulgirlfriendswholooklikestrippersandtonsoffriendstogohavebarbequeswith,andIhavetolookatthemandthink,Theseguysareprobablyprettybummedoutthatthey’renotdoinganythingthatgivesthemanysenseofnotorietyoraccomplishment—they’rejustpartofanassemblyline.Andsodoingthefilm,ifwedidn’thaveanysenseofwhatmakescharacterslikethis—specifically,depressingoremotional—thenthefilmwould’vehadnoemotionalresonancetoit.Itwaskindofinterestingforustotrytofindwherethosestorybeatswouldbeinordertomaketheaudienceactuallyfeel,Waitaminute,thosecharacterswhowe’resetup—perhapsevenindoctrinated—tolookataspatheticareactuallyquitesadandwell-roundedpeople.Andalotofpeoplewhoyoumightjustdismiss,they’reprobablydismissingthemselves,andthat’sabummer.That’skindofwhatthefilmisabout—peoplewho,inoneway,arestrivingveryhardtonotgiveuponthemselves,orarejustgivingup.Whatdothosetwothingsfeellikefortheaveragetwenty-something?That’swhattheunderlyingthemeofthefilmis.Youcanlookatitandsay,Well,it’saboutsiblings,orwhatever,butit’saboutthis,andthat’ssomethingthatCarlenandIbondedover.It’sauniversaltheme—forpeopleintheirtwenties,whoarelivingthroughit,orpeopleintheirthirties,whohave,orpeopleintheirfifties,whorememberitorareseeingtheirchildrengothroughit.Itjustcomesupalot,andpeoplecanconnecttothatstory,andasaresultofthat,theyunderstandwhyitmeanssomething.RSBearingthatinmind,whatwasthehardestscenetowrite?ARPIdon’tknow,they’reallhard.Imeaneverysceneisdifficult—RSWhataboutthehardestscenetowatch?ARPMyfriendsaid,“Here’sthewayitiswhenyou’reeditingamoviethatyou’rein—it’sonlyfinishedwhenyoucanwatchtheentirethingandfeeltheleastamountofembarrassment.”So,it’snotthatanysceneisharderoreasiertowatch.Theonesthatareeasytowatcharetheonesthatareshotwell,whereIthinkwedidareallygoodjobwithcameraset-upsandwefilmedthelocationsproperlyandtheperformancesaregood.Theonesthatarehardtowatcharetheoneswherefilmingwasadisaster—peopleweretired,noonewasontheirA-game.Obviously,Icanputmyselfinthereandsay,ThehardeststufftowatchisthestuffwhereI’mdoingthis,orI’mdoingthat,butreally,watchingit,youjustfeelyourfailuresasafilmmaker,notasaperformer,eventhoughI’mlookingatmyownface.Sothereareplentyofsceneswherewejustweren’tonit,oronepersonwastotallyoffkeywitheveryoneelse,andthosescenesareexcruciating,butthere’snothingyoucandoaboutit.Wedidn’thavemoneyorresourcestodoanyreshoots,soeverythingthat’sinthereisjustfromtheshoot—scenesthat,ifwe’dhadthreedaysofreshoots,could’vebeenawholenewworld.Butthatwastotallyoutofthequestion,andsotherearesomeroughspotsinthefilm,butit’saroughfilmandtheydon’tstandoutliketheywouldiftheywerepoorlyshotscenesinSpider-Man.Theykindofblendintotherough-and-tumblefabricofthefilmasawhole.RSYou’vementioned—ininterviews—asortofnervousnessonscreen,orsomeanxietiesaboutperforming.Butyou’vealsosaidthatyouandCarlenrehearsedthisforever,andyouknewyourlinesreallywell,andtherewasn’ttoomuchimprovisation.I’mwondering,ifthatperformativeanxietyismanifestinthefilm,ifthatdynamicevolvedwhileyouwererehearsing,anddidthatgetintomodeofdeliverythatweseeinthefilm?ARPBythetimewegotonset,wewerebothveryinsecureaboutnotbeingtrainedactors.Wewerebothinsecureaboutnotknowinghowtoactorperform,so...wejustmadesuretolearnourlinesanddoareallygoodjobwiththat.Therhythmthatwefoundwasjustfromthefactthatweweresittingtherewritingscenesthatwereforustoperform,andwegottothepointwherewecouldleavetheapartmentandjustdowalksaroundtheblockandwehadthedialoguememorized...Oncewegottothatpointandwewereonset,itwasjustaboutdoingitexactlythatway.RSYoucalled[TheColorWheel]aroughfilm,andIthinkthere’sawayinwhichtheviewerisawareofthetexturesofthefilm—there’sacloseproximity.I’mthinkingofthismomentwherethey’rediscussingmolestationandColinsayssomethinglike,“Don’tlookatmycrotchwhileyou’retalkingaboutmolestation”andthecameralooksdown.Wasthatstuffimprovised,oristhatadetailthatwaswrittenintothescript?ARPNo—well,Iwouldn’tcallthatimprovising,that’sjustad-libbing.Stufflikethatwasnotwritten;stufflikethatwasusfilming,andmenoticingthatwhenCarlensaidthatline,shelookedatmycrotch,andthenImadesurethatwehadtheshotofthecrotch.Butthatwasn’twritten,norwoulditneedtohavebeenwritten,norwoulditnecessarilyhaveworked.Butwefilmeditanditseemedlikeagoodthingtoaddinthere.Itwasanicething,becauseatthatpointwe’dbeenlivingwithandasthesecharacters,attimes,foraboutayear.Anditwaseasytohavethatdynamic,whichultimatelybecamenotthatdissimilarfromouractualdynamic.Ouractualdynamicduringfilminggottothepoint—westartedoffhavingbeentogetherforayearasco-writers,anditwasveryeasytotakeasmallstepsidewaystopeoplewhohavegrownuptogetherandareattheirwit’sendwithoneanother.Littlelineslikethatjustcomefromageneralsenseofaggravationthatcanarisebetweentwopeoplewhoarefamiliarenoughwitheachothertoknowhowtopushoneanother’sbuttons...andcan,youknow,throwabitofbanter.Andthentheotheronejusthasaresponseforitimmediately,which,fortunately,becausewespentsomuchtimetogetherwritingandrehearsing,littlead-libslikethatbecamequitepossibleduringfilming.Butreallythere’sonlyahandfuloftheminthefinishedproduct.RSAndwhatwastheeditingprocesslikeforyou?Youmentionedbeingsomewhatlimitedinhowyoucouldorganizeorreorderthescenes—ARPImeantheeditingwasfine—Ilikeediting,andIwasabletositathomeanddoitcomfortablyonmylaptop.But,youknow,therewerecertainrestrictionsinplacebecauseofthelimitationsofthefilm.ThefirsttimeIlookedatthefootage,therewerescenesthatIreallywishedwecouldshootagain.Ideaslikeyou’rementioning,likethesequencingbasedoncostumechangesthatduringthewritingandshootingneverwould’veoccurredtome...duringediting,youmightthink,Well,let’splayaroundwiththesealittlebit.Butwecouldn’tplayaroundwiththem.Whichwasfrustrating,butultimately,theeditingprocessjustbecameaboutfindingthemomentsthatworkedthebestinwhatwehad,becausewhenyou’reshootingahundred-pagescriptineighteendays,it’snotaboutdoingthingsjustright.It’saboutgettingthingsasbestasyoucando.Andeditingamovielikethisisaboutfindingthebestofwhatyou’vegot.Andtherearesomescenes,liketheoneswe’vetalkedabout,thathaveshotsthatarepainfulandexcruciatingtowatch,butthey’rethebestwe’vegot,andthey’reinthemoviebecausenomatterhowbadtheyare,everythingelsewedidwasworse.That’sjustalimitationofwhatitistobedoingsomethingatthislevel.Certainly,peopleatfestivalsunderstandthat,becausetheyknowhowmoviesthatarecheapandplayatfilmfestivalsaremade.Peopleatmultiplexesorcriticsmightnotunderstandthat,becausetothem,theyseeyourindependentmovieandthentheygoseethenewWoodyAllenmovie,orthenewToddSolonzmovie,andtheythinktheseareallthesameandlookatyoumovieatsay,Thisisapieceoftrash,becausetheonlythingstheyseeatthearthousearefilmsmadeatthatlevel.Andthatdoesaffectthewaypeoplelookatthefinishedthing,butultimatelyyoumakedowithwhatyoucanandhopethatpeoplerealizethatthismoviewasmadeveryquicklyandverycheaplybyabunchoffriendswhoarejusttryingtohavefun.RSImean,youdon’tregardthoserestrictionsasnecessarilyartisticallyinspiring,inaway,then?Wouldyoueverimposethoselimitationsonyourselfasfilmmakeroutofsomesortofaestheticconsideration,oroutofanideaaboutprocessandwhatresultitmightforce?Isitatthispointjustamatterofresources?ARPIfyou’relimitless,andyou’renotimposinganyrestrictions,thenyouendupwithtotallyuninspiredgarbage.Likethelastcouplefilmsbyseveralformerheroes...whojust,withoutanysenseofrestriction,whentheygettodowhatevertheywant,whattheydoisjusttotallyunwatchable—totallydevoidofanyvalueforme.Obviously,youwanttokeepthatstuffinchecksothatyoucontinuetohavearelationshipwithcompromise.Ifeveryideayouhavesomeonetellsyouisagreatidea,andeveryfirstdraftyouhave,someonesays,Yeah,youshoulddothis...youendupwithaterriblemovielikeInlandEmpire.OranunwatchablemovielikeTheLimitsofControl.Moviesthatarebankruptonideas,wherethere’snoonetotell[thedirectors],“Thisishorrible.”Whentheyhad30,000dollars,theyweresofulloflifeandcompromise.Nowyoucandowhateveryouwant,andit’sjustsoupyourownassandit’sjusttotallyworthlesstoaviewer.Youseeaudiencesfailingtorespondtothesefilmsthewaytheyrespondtoearlierworksbytheseheroesandmasters.SoIwouldneverwanttogettothatpoint,becausethenwhat’sthepointofdoinganything?Therewillalwaysbelimitations,evenifyouhavetwentymilliondollars.There’llbesomethingyoucanorcan’tdo.Idon’treallyknowyet,I’msuresomedayI’llfindout,butIcan’timagineworkinginanenvironmentsurroundedbyyesmenandabottomlessbankaccountcreatesanythingfullofgenuineartisticmoments.RSWhatwentintothedecisiontoshootinblackandwhite16mm?ARPThestorynecessitatedit.Itwasanostalgic,hazytripthroughanonexistentNortheastAmerica.Ifyoudidthatincolor—incrispdigital—itjustwouldn’tlookthewaypeoples’memoriesandemotionsallowthatmomenttolook.So,youwantthestorytolookandfeelright—averyeasyshortcuttothatismakingitlookthewaytheoldphotographsyou’veseenlook.StillfromTheColorWheelwithCarlenAltmanRSImean,it’sabeautifulfilm.There’sagreatvisualqualityinthatgrain.It’snotroughinthewayyoumentionedbefore,butthere’sasomethingofarawvisualqualitytoitthat’sperhapslackinginmostotherfilms.Iwantedtoaskwhatyou’redoingnow.Areyougoingtocontinueinthismodeofexploringstory—especiallystuffthatisn’tnecessarilycinematicallyrepresentable—andthewayyouinternalizethings.Areyougoingtokeepgoinginthatvein?Doyouhaveanyprojectscomingup?ARPIdon’tspecifically.Ihaveanotherscriptthat’sfinishedandthatI’mtryingtogetmade—there’satentativedreamofdoingitnextsummer.Again,itcomesfromideasthatIhadwhilereadingaparticularlyimportantbook—athousand-page,un-adaptablebookthatgavemeideasthatIwasveryexcitedaboutexploring.I’mhopingthatwillcometofruition.I’malsoworkingonaTVdeal—adevelopmentdealforacompanythatisreal,unlikealotofdealsthatgetmade—withacompanythatisrealandwillpayme.Wehaveasortofgentleman’sagreementtoshootthisthinginOctober,andhopefullythatwillactuallyhappenandI’llbedoingthissoonerratherthanlater.RSCanyoutalkspecificsonthatproject?ARPAh,notreally.ImeanthescriptIcantalkabout,butitdoesn’texistyet—it’sjustascript.There’snomovieyet.Butit’sinspiredbysomeideasIhad—it’saNewYorkmovie,whichI’veneverdonebefore—inspiredbyideasIhadwhilereadingabookcalledTheRecognitions,writtenbyWilliamGaddis,whichtakesplaceinthe‘50sandissetintheWestVillageandcontainsamultitudeoftruthsaboutartistsandphoniesandthewaythatpeopletreatothersthattheythinkareartisticallyinteresting,andwhatadisgustingdisplayoffakerythatcanbe.Itwasveryamazing,andlikeIsaid,it’sfifty,sixtyyearsold,butitcould’vebeenwrittentoday,andsetinmoderntimes.Iwasreallyblownawaybyit,andwhilereadingitamidstallthethingsthatwerehappeningwithTheColorWheel,IreallystartedtohaveanideaformyfirstNewYorkstory.TheTVthingisnotaNewYorkstoryatall,andthisismyNewYorkmovie.IreallywanttomakeaNewYorkmoviethatdoesn’tcastitasthismagical,emotionalcityfullofhopeandwonder,butasadeeplycompetitiveplacefullofpeoplethatarewillingtotreatyoulikeyoudon’texistuntilyoudecidethatyou’resuccessful—andthenallofthesuddentheytreatyoulikeyou’retheirbestfriend—andwhatadisgustingsystemthatis,andwhattypeofacityitisthatallowsasystemlikethattocontinuetoexist.I’lltrytomakeamoderncomedyinandaroundthatworld.RSSpeakingofGaddis...isthere—ARPNo,there’snot.Totalcoincidence.Carlencameupwiththename—Isaid,“Carlen,youneedtonameyourowncharacter,”andthat’swhatshecameupwith.RSHaveyougottenthatquestionbefore?ARPYeah,itcomesup.Imeanit’snotevenaquestionsometimes—justpeopleeitherenthusiasticallyordismissivelysayingit’sobviouslyareference.RSArethereanyotherfilmmakersworkingtodaythatyoufeelakindofkinshipwith?Peopleworkingintelevision,tooARPJustphilosophically,yes,becausealotofmyfriendsandthepeopleI’vemetatfestivalsalongthewayovertheyearsIfeelakinshipwith.Notbecauseourfilmsaresimilarinanyway,butbecausewhenyoumeetpeopleundersimilarcircumstances,andtheyfilmonsimilarbudgetsforsimilarreasons—whicharetoexpresssomethingonaverysmallscaleandgetitouttheretoalimitedaudience—asmallnumberofpeople—youhaveakinshipwiththem.Thefilmscouldbeverydifferent.MyfriendCalvinReederdirectedafilmcalledTheOregonian—shoton16—that’sanart-horrormovie.Ithasalotofexplodingboils,blood,andvomit.Youknow,thetwofilmsbacktobackwouldn’tmakesenseasadoublefeature,buthehadaveryspecificideaofwhowasgoingtowatchthismovie—whattheaudiencewas—hegotmoneytoshootiton16,andhecommittedhisvisionfullytocelluloid,andIfeelakinshiptothat.Theworksaren’tthesame,butthereasonswemadethemareverysimilar.Icanthinkofcountlessexamplesoffriendsandcolleagueswhohavedonetheexactsamething,andit’sveryinspiring.ThosearethepeopleIreallyconnectwith,morethanwiththosewhosemoviesaresuperficiallysimilar.RSDoyoulikealotofthecinemathat’sbeingproducedtoday,ornotverymuch?ARPIhavelikedit.Impolexwasatfestivalsin2009,TheColorWheelwasatfestivalsin2011.Iseeamovieatafestival,andImeettheactors,andImeetthedirector...andit’ssoeasyformetolikethemovie,becauseImeetthemandIseetheirenthusiasmjusttogetabodyinthetheater—Ifeelakinshipthere.SowhenIgoseetheirmovie,I’msohappytoseethatI’msonotaloneinwantingtomakeidiosyncraticmoviesthatarenotformultiplexesandarenotforhugeaudiences—they’reforthepeopleatfestivalsandfriendsandloversoffilm.SoIenduplikingalotofthosefilms—I’mstartingtoreachasaturationpointwiththembecauseIseesomany,andeveryoneIseenowreinforcesmyever-growingdesiretoseethesepeopleallcollectivelytakeastepforward,soIdon’thavetokeepwatchingthesemoviesthatcostunderahundredthousanddollars.AndIwouldliketoseeallmyfriendsmakingmillion-dollarmovies—Iwouldlovetoseewhatthatlevelofexpressionandthatlevelofresourceandfreedomcouldbringtopeoplewho’vealreadyprovenhowmuchtheycandowithverylimitedmeans.AlotofthetimenowwhenI’matfestivalswatchingthesefilms,Ijustwishthatthesepeoplewouldallagreenottomakemoviesuntiltheycanmakedifferentkindsofmovies,butthat’sjustbecauseI’vebeenseeingfiftymoviesayearatthesamelevelforthreeyears.Ithasnothingtodowiththemovies,butwiththefactofhowmanyofthemI’veseenandhowboredIget,andmydesiretoseepeopledoingthingsthataredifferent,andhopefullyIcan.WhenIgotoEuropeanfestivals,thefilmsinthesectionthatI’minarealwaysverydifferent—veryweird,verydifferentthings,totallynotthesame.I’mjustintherebytotalcategorization,notbecausethemoviesarethesame.AndIalwaysenjoyseeingwhereEuropeanfestivalsplacetheoneAmericanmovieamidsttwentyforeignfilms.There’ssomeinterestingstuffthere,andverydifferentfilmmakersfromtheonesyou’llmeetatyouraverageAmericanfilmfestival.Ialwaysgetveryexcited—Ilovenothingmorethangoingtofestivalsandmeetingfilmmakersandseeingtheirmovies,andthentalking—ornottalkingtothemaboutit.Assomeonewho’swatchedmoviesforsolongandcaredaboutthem,IliketoseeonewhereIknowthepersonwhomadeit.WhenIwasthirteenyearsold,Ineverwould’vethoughtthatIcouldseefiftymoviesayearmadebysomeonewhosephonenumberIhave—again,that’sveryinterestingtome,andIhopetocontinuedoingthatbywhatevermeans.StillfromTheColorWheelwithCarlenAltmanandAlexRossPerryRSIfIcanaskyouonemorequestion—Imean,Idon’tknowhowmuchofthisisdesignedtoflufforcomplicatereviewsormakethemmoreinteresting—butwhenpeopletalkaboutacertainhostilityonthepartofaudiencestothisfilm—ARPWhodoes?RSAlotofcritics—forinstance,whatdoyoumakeofA.O.Scottsayinghe“hatedeveryminute”ofthefilmandthengoingontowriteaglowingreviewofthefilm?Wereyouseekingtomakeachallengingfilm?ARP(laughter)No,peoplewhoseektomakechallengingfilmsmakehorriblemovies.There’snothinginterestingorfunaboutwatchingdeliberatelychallengingfilms.Iwantedthisfilmtobeentertainingandfunny,andthenjustbydefaultitendedupbeingchallengingandtransgressiveanddifficult,whichIdidn’tknowwasgoingtobethecase—Ididn’tplanonthat.Thepeoplewhosetouttomakefilmsthatareintentionallychallengingorartistic...thosefilmsareunwatchable.There’snothinghumanaboutthem.TheColorWheelisafilmthat’ssupposedtobefunandentertaining,andunderneaththatcandycoatingthere’ssupposedtobedeep,sad,emotionalissues,butbecauseitdoesordoesn’tsucceedasbeinganactuallyentertainingmovie...theonlygoodmovieisamoviethat,whenyouhavefriendsover,you’dsay,Youguyshavegotseethis,let’sputiton,sithere,andwatchit.Iseehundredsofmovies,andIseeplentyofvery,verylong,impenetrablychallengingfilms,butifsomethingexistsonlytoprovokethatreaction,thenyou’regoingtowatchitandthink,Oh,that’sveryinteresting,that’sverychallenging,I’mgoingtogohomeandwrestlewiththat.Butifyouwatchitandyou’relike,Wow,it’sreallyfun—that’skindofamazing.It’slikeA.O.Scottgoing,Oh,that’sahorriblydifficultmovietowatch,butultimately,there’sreallyalothere—Ineedtomakesuresomeoneelseseesthat.ThosearethetypesoffilmsthatIgrewupwatching,andwantpeopletocontinuetobeabletohave.Impolexisthesamething—thismovieiscrazy,andwe’vebeendrinking,let’sputitonandwatchit.It’llblowyourmind.There’scrazyshitinthismovie,andnowthatwe’vegotsomebeersinus...youwon’tbelievewhatyou’reseeing.Somethingthatpeoplereallywanttopassontotheirfriendsasasocialevent,andagesture—agoodthingyouneedtowatchbecauseyou’llhavefunwatchingit.Youknow,Eraserheadisfuntowatch,becauseit’sbeautiful,andit’sfunny,andit’sweird,andyouwanttotellyourfriendstowatchit.InlandEmpireisnotfunbecauseit’suglyandit’sboring—andit’slongasshit.Noonewouldbelike,You’vegotsitdownandwatchthismoviewithme,it’llbeafuncrazycoolnight.PeoplehavebeensayingthataboutEraserheadforfortyyears.PeoplehavebeensayingthataboutBlueVelvetandMulhollandDrive.NoonesaysthataboutInlandEmpire,unlessthey’resoblindbecauseoftheirdevotiontoDavidLynchthatthey’reconvincedit’sagoodmovie.IfyouhandedthatDVDtosomebodyandsaid,“You’vegottositdownandwatchthiswithme,”they’dlookattheruntimeandsay,“Idon’tthinkso.No,Idon’twanttowatchthiswithyou.”Andyou’dputiton,andafterfiveminutes,they’dsay,“Thisishideous.IfeellikeI’mwatchingYouTube.Whyarewewatchingthis?”They’dneverhaveagoodtimewatchingthat.Whenyoulosetrackofthatmotivationformakingafilm—whenyou’rereallyjustmakingitforyourself,orforpeopleexclusivelytohaveanintellectualoracademicresponsetoit—thenyou’rejustreallycompletelyoutoftouchwithmakingimportantentertainmentthatpeoplewillactuallyenjoy.Becausewhat’sthepoint?Peopleshouldgoenjoysomething.Peoplearespendingtheirmoneyandtheirtimetocomewatchsomethingyou’vemade,andtheleastyoucandoisentertainthem.Doyouwanttotorturethemandforcethemtositthereandthinkattheendofaworkday?Doyouwantthemtohavetoengagewithyourfilmcritically?Ordoyouwanttojustletthemenjoythemselves,andiftheychooseto,engagewithitinwhateverwaythey’dlike?Becausereally,ifyoucan’tentertainpeople,thenyoushouldn’tbetakingtheirmoney,andtheyshouldn’tbegivingittoyou.That’showIfeel.